THIS kind of covenant makes sense to me — how does it strike YOU?

The pastoral role is relational. It can’t be anything but, IMHO, and I’m guessing most would agree.

But do you see it as covenantal?

Our relationship with Jesus is. So is our marital relationship.

But what about pastor-church?

It very much IS, I believe.

I found the content below from a search firm who had a “sample pastor+congregation covenant.”

I’ve just copied/pasted here. The point is NOT the exact details. The point is providing a starting point — first and foremost thinking about the relationship as guided by covenantal commitment.

I hope that you also think its at least reflective of God’s way of doing business.

You?

Here’s an example I’ve seen:

*****

THE CHURCH AND THE PASTOR AGREE 

Spiritual Support

In awareness of the support needed for ministry together, the congregation and pastor mutually agree to support one another in private and public prayer.

Building the Relationships

To develop the relationships and trust necessary to a long-term pastor-church partnership, the church and pastor agree to involve the region staff of <name of denomination or organizational entity> in the process of reviewing and building the relationship.

Ministry Goals

Goals speak to actions and activities. This list should be general (3 to 5 items) and should keep in mind the agreed to time available for pastoral work.

• Pastoral Leadership Expectations

         Based on position description or provide a general description of how the pastor will be involved in leading the church

• Congregational Leadership and Membership Expectations

Taking in to account the kinds of expectations for pastoral leadership named above, develop a description of how the congregational leadership and members will assist and support the pastor in giving this kind of leadership. 

THE CHURCH AGREES

Compensation

In awareness of regional minimums, and the experience and education of the person we are calling, we agree to provide total annual compensation of $_______ in the form of cash salary and suitable housing.

The annual cash salary shall be $ ___________.

The housing arrangement shall be:

An annual housing allowance of $ ______ which shall be used as determined by the pastor, to buy or rent a home including utilities, furnishings, and appurtenances to the home.

         OR

The congregation shall provide a parsonage and pay $________ for utilities.

Reimbursement of Professional Expenses

To provide reimbursement for professional expenses incurred by the pastor in the exercise of the church’s ministry as follows:

Automobile expense will be reimbursed at the current IRS mileage rate of _________ cents per mile, up to a maximum of $___________.

The expenses incurred by the pastor as a delegate to the area/regional annual meeting and/or continuing education up to $_________ and _________ weeks for study annually. 

Fringe Benefits

Retirement: to provide the full Ministers and Missionaries Benefit Board (MMBB) benefits and protections for the pastor and family.

The church will cooperate with the pastor in any salary withholding arrangements as may be desired, e.g., the pastor’s membership in the Annuity Supplement Plan (TAS) and Flexible Spending Accounts.

Disability

In the event that the pastor is disabled from illness and/or accident and unable to continue the responsibilities required, the church agrees to coordinate benefits with those available through Social Security and the MMBB in order to safeguard the well-being of the pastor and the pastor’s family.

If the period of disability is for a period of three (3) months or less, the church agrees to continue full salary and benefits.

If the period of disability extends beyond three (3) months, the church agrees to work with MMBB to make application for disability benefits and reach an agreement for service and remuneration, which would safeguard both the interests of the pastor and the church.

Note: This benefit is only in effect after the pastor enrolls in the Retirement/Death Benefit Plans.

Vacation

To provide an annual paid vacation of _____weeks. The pastor shall coordinate the use of vacation time with the appropriate church body. A reasonable amount of time devoted to sharing in state and national work, continuing education experiences, giving leadership at camps and conferences, and similar activities shall not be considered as part of the vacation period.

Review

To review, at the end of 6 months and then again before the end of the first year, the matters contained in this agreement with a view toward making such changes as may be mutually desirable and acceptable, taking into account inflationary pressures.

In case of disagreement over conduct or interpretation of this agreement or the Covenant and Code of Ethics, the church and/or the pastor will seek the services of region staff.

THE PASTOR AGREES

To provide pastoral leadership for the _________ Church, beginning _________. 

To work a minimum of _____ hours/week in the ministry of this congregation and regularly report goals and progress regarding work on these goals to __________ (leadership group of the church).

To seek to maintain a cooperative relationship with neighboring sister churches of <org here>, <org> at large and the mission efforts of <org>. Attendance at the local <org meeting/conference> is expected. 

To abide by the Covenant and Code of Ethics.

To serve in the pastoral relationship with the church until such time as it is terminated in accordance with the constitution and/or bylaws of the ______________ Church, and <org>. It is understood that the termination by either pastor or church requires _____ days notice, unless a shorter notice is mutually agreeable.

__________. Signed/Dated by Pastor

__________ Signed/Dated by Moderator

__________ Signed/Dated by Chair of Search Team

*****

Again, the point is not the exact details herein…it’s the heart: Does the church see their relationship as covenantal with the pastor?

Because this I AM sure off… Kristine and I take our relationship with the church as covenantal in the same way as our relationship maritally is covenantal.

Do you have examples of your storytelling?

I used to do regular “reflections” on the podcast (when I had more time), and many are hosted on my old website. And because of my time in marketplace ministry leadership with Follower of One, a number of these were oriented toward folks in that area of serving.

(NOTE: The links below take you to the OLD website, but it’s still functional)

REFLECTIONS

An octopus and the universal desire for relational harmony
Exploring a different style of storytelling: Joseph of Arimathea
Boyed cheese sandwiches and Easter
Who is Ray Miller?
Her name was Rachel, and this is my story
Loneliness and the big questions of life
Taking up your cross in Mark 8
“Sometimes life..." or "then they will know that I am the Lord."
Broccoli, candy, and an important question to ask
Jesus, sex, and the purity conversation

The dead calm of indifference (Song of Songs 4:16)
Preaching the Gospel to yourself (2 Timothy 2:1)
Be like the moon (Job 38:31-35)
Love like it is well (2 Corinthians 1:3-5)
Standing on the promises (reflection on Joshua 18-19)

MARKETPLACE STORIES

God is good...all the time? An unlikely encounter.
Numbers, people, and two leadership worldviews
A printer and a paradigm shift
A ministry of showing up
The boy on the board
God's value versus market value, a critical distinction.

What is Kristine’s role?

Rightly or wrongly, a pastor’s wife bears a degree of scrutiny from a congregation. And while it may no longer be true (generally), there was a time when the pastor was a “two for one” deal.

Kristine is a long-term employee in the world of telecom and data centers. She works remotely, so her job can go with us wherever we’re called — and as you’ll hear in other parts of our story, “going where God calls us” is something she and I discussed in our first couple dates.

But that doesn’t mean she comes to run the kids’ ministry or something like that. She has a full-time gig (plus her own extracurricular studies).

To be clear, MY expectation of Kristine is no more and no less than any other parishioner.

I’d exhort her privately what I’d exhort every congregant publicly — that God’s call to follow Jesus is that a) your response to His mercy is one of sacrificial service and generosity, b) unity in community and c) using your Spirit-given gifts to love God and neighbor (including even your enemies).

Yes, we both realize (together) that congregants will place their own burdens and expectations on a pastor’s wife. That’s part of life in a church where the marks of culture and sin are present (which is all of them).

But generally speaking, this isn’t a two-for-one Blue Plate Special, per se.

My simple response is: What does the Bible call every single Christian to as a child of God, a disciple of Christ?

THAT is my one and only expectation of Kristine’s role along side me as a pastor. No more, no less.

What’s your vibe and adaptability?

I spent 34 years in Portland, Oregon…the place that put the “casual” in “Friday casual.” I also worked in the tech industry which is famously casual.

Kristine’s from the Seattle area. And works in tech…but long ago worked at Nordstrom. She’s the classy one of the two of us.

So I can and do wear a jackets…but it’s still over top a pair of jeans.

Honestly, though, my long time home church in Portland (before moving to Seattle to marry Kristine) is as hipster/low-brow/tattoo-friendly as they come. Theologically it (and I) are conservative, but as far from formal as you could get.

As it turns out, Kristine and I are both well-traveled and I have lived lots of places. I’m used to adapting culturally.

But on the average day we’re “beauty and the beast,” and she’s the beauty. And I’m the guy usually dressing down instead of dressing up.

What Bible verses most speak to you (and how do they touch down)?

I’m not exactly a “What’s your life verse?” kind of guy, but there are a few that SO resonate with me that they ring in my head almost daily.

As for me, I vow that I will not sin against the Lord by ceasing to pray for you. I will teach you the good and right way. ~1 Samuel 12:23, CSB

Even as the Israelites insisted on having a king like all the surrounding nations, Samuel loved them enough to a) warn them and b) commit to them his faithfulness.

That’s what God does with us, right?

That’s my commitment to my first ministry (Kristine!), and that’s how I think about shepherding a flock. Prayer, preaching, and care ARE the work, right?

A person’s heart plans his way, but the Lord determines his steps. ~Proverbs 16:9, CSB

I could tell you story after story about how this has touched down in my life, how…

• …in the span of a few weeks I went from a breakfast conversation in Portland, Oregon to studying for five weeks in Oxford, England

• …I ended up working on my DMin at Denver Seminary (and how a DMin in Spiritual Formation relates to an MA in Apologetics)

• …the Lord revealed to me one step in front of me that resulted in marriage and moving to Tacoma, Washington and turning down an offer for a pastoral role along the way

• ….I believe that “the call” may be a ‘road to Damascus’ moment for some people, but is more likely to be like the wandering, stumbling path that Peter took

• …Kristine and I have been praying that the Lord would lead us to a locality — congregation, town or region or people group to be reached, etc., be it near or far to our Seattle-area location.

In a host of ways, this relates to a couple verses that I think sum up nearly all the ethics of the New Testament:

Therefore, brothers and sisters, in view of the mercies of God, I urge you to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God; this is your true worship. Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God. ~Romans 12:1-2, CSB

When I started serving regularly in the weekly chapel services for LifeChange (at Union Gospel Mission in Portland, OR), I prayerfully began by preaching through Romans 12.

But in the last couple years my own view of “preaching” and “pastoring” has been transformed by what I have learned while serving at UGM:

• “Relational” over “transactional.” As I preached through Romans 12, the Lord hammered home “relational spirituality” to me such that it became the focus of my DMin thesis (Romans 12 is the application of the Gospel to loving God, loving/being the church, and even loving one’s enemies).

• Dialogue beats monologue. I began serving by ‘delivering a message’ at UGM’s chapel services, but what I found was “circling up the chairs” and facilitating a lesson conversationally had a greater impact.

This dovetails with my passion for applied theology — our ability to connect. It’s the subject of my doctoral work. And it’s rooted in one of the quintessential verses used in apologetics — that relational spirituality isn’t just about the “what,” it’s also very much about the “how”:

…but in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, ready at any time to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you. Yet do this with gentleness and reverence… ~1 Peter 3:15–16a, CSB

“For the hope” is where the name of my podcast and personal ministry comes from, but there’s more to me than that.

In this “now and not-yet” life the “now” is both being ready to give an apologia, but it’s also an incarnational caring. Peter was writing to the diaspora during what was probably a reign of Nero. Identifying with Jesus came at a cost.

But your identity is itself rooted in hope — and hope is inherently “history and eschatalogy.” To paraphrase Lewis Smedes, remembering redemptively is trusting that a God who has always been trustworthy can be counted on for a history which is yet future to us.

And don’t we live in just such a world with just such a need for the gospel?

Why, yes. Yes we do.

It’s not original to me, but I’d argue that politics simply follows culture, and culture simply follows worldview. So where are we at with origin, identity, meaning, morality, and destiny?

We need to help the Holy Spirit form people spiritually for a world of spiritual warfare.

What is your philosophy of ministry?

Jesus meets you where you’re at, but He’s not content to leave you where you’re at. And His mission is my mission.

With those outside the church, the goal is Jesus. With those inside the church, the goal is more Jesus. It’s relational, not transactional. It connects principle and practice in head, heart, and hands.

As one way that it touches down, consider how I approach the podcast… #ForTheHope. The truth is that you can go anywhere and hear a great voice. But what if ‘reading through the Bible together’ means doing it like we’re drinking coffee and commenting along the way, leaving in the “keepin’ it real” moments, and actually responding to real listener pastoral needs, questions, and prayer requests?

Because that’s what I do every single day.

We do it every single day because we need spiritual food daily (just like we need physical food daily).

So what does this have to do with pastoring a church?

Two words: curiosity and patience.

To me, that’s relational (versus transactional). It’s life described in relational, attitudinal, and biblical terms instead of programmatical, transactional terms.

Perhaps put another way, systems and programs should support relational development.

Preaching, teaching, small groups, gatherings for men or women or moms or seniors or students or food truck owners — to me, anyway — have the same objective: to encounter the living Christ. Don’t confuse the message and objective with the means/method. One is the goal, the other is the context.

In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity.

What about your divorce(s)?

In my estimation, there are two compound questions here.

One, am I biblically divorced and free to remarry…and does anything here disqualify me from ministry? Two, is the person I marry biblically divorced and free to remarry?

To be fair, I’m shortening this a bit. I’ll blend both the story and the theology.

My first wife and I were not Christian when we married. On the contrary, I was a long-haired, pot-smoking musician who married someone with whom I had a one-night stand (and less than two months later, an abortion). Along the way (after she had an affair with the guy who was the best man at my wedding), I gave my life to Christ. 20 years and three children later, she decided she was done.

I was quite imperfect, of course. Along the way I processed all of this — pre-divorce (and there’s more to the story, during the divorce, and after the divorce — with a dear friend who’s also one of the references you’ll meet. At the time he was the head elder at a large Baptist church where we lived…and he was my accountability partner of many years. In other words, he knew — and still knows — the deepest levels of my failures and abilities.

In all of this, I realized that my temptation would be to self-justify and eisegete. So together we worked through — over months and years — whether or not I was a) biblically divorced and able to remarry and b) disqualified from ministry.

While I’ll happily share, I’ll spare you the theological argumentation. The “moment” came, tearfully, at a Denny’s breakfast a couple years later when he looked me in the eye and said, “You are not disqualified, you were abandoned.”

Fast forward many years.

Dating as a 50-something Christian is quite different. But the short version includes a way I learned to begin dates: to figure out if she’s biblically divorced and able to be remarried.

Along the way I meet, query, and marry, Kristine Szabo.

Besides early questions determining whether or not she was biblically divorced and in the clear to remarry, I asked another key question:

Are you willing to go wherever the Lord calls us?

I trust you can imagine how rare it is for a mid-;ive someone to say, “Yes, anywhere.”

She, even more than me, is a world traveler. In other words, she understands what it means to not be in the Pacific Northwest that we’ve both long called home.

But the heart of the issue is the issue of the heart. She, like I, will go to serve who and where the Lord calls us to serve.

Where are the links to your sermons?

Almost all of my preaching experience came in the five years I did pulpit supply for American Missionary Fellowship (now InReach). We served 13 small rural churches in my field.

The challenge is a) that was long before COVID forced everyone to stream online and b) these churches didn’t have A/V teams, webpages, or anything back then.

My most recent three as Ministry Resident at Journey Church Tacoma:

Living Faithfully in a Shaky World, Aug 17, 2025

Job Description of the Church (Acts 1:8), June 22, 2025

Wise Up to Shore Up (James 1:13-18), Feb 16, 2025

In the meantime, like I mentioned late in this intro story, I have demonstrable transferrable skills, solid theological education, and perhaps most importantly, a humble, willing-to-learn, pastor-elder qualified heart. It’s like I’ve got a lot of experience as a jazz musician, but if I join your rock band it’ll take a little time to adjust the chops. But it’s not my first rodeo.